This is the transcription of the Niche Pursuits Podcast – Episode 26. Spencer, thanks for letting me post this interview here.
Welcome to the Niche Pursuits Podcast. Are you ready to discover some niche business ideas that actually work? Well, it’s time for a motivational kick to jumpstart your next big idea. Here’s your host, Spencer Haws.
[wpsharely id=”1134″]Spencer: Hey, everyone! Welcome to another Niche Pursuits Podcast. Today, I have Doug Cunnington on the call with us. Doug, how are you doing?
Doug: I’m doing great, Spencer. I wanna thank you very much for having me on the podcast. I’m a very big fan of the podcast and of your blogs, so I definitely appreciate the opportunity.
Spencer: Hey, thanks a lot for that. I appreciate hearing the kind words as well. You know, I’m very excited to have you on the podcast with me. We did a brief text interview on nichepursuits.com where you shared some of your successes. So, we’re gonna dive into that a little bit. But before I do, I wanted to get a little bit of your background, what you’re doing right now, what is your current day job, what do you do professionally?
Doug: I am a Project Manager for a software development company. So, we typically work in the telecom industry. My day to day activities consist of managing a schedule and tasks for large scale software development teams.
Spencer: You know, you are doing that full time, so everything that we’re going to be talking about here are things that you’ve done on the site –outside of your regular full time job. So, the question is, how and when did you get started building niche websites? I mean, you’ve got your full time job which sounds like you’re not a graphic designer; you’re not a web developer. It’s totally unrelated. So, why did you get started and how did that happened?
Doug: I got started back in April last year, 2013 and it was sort of triggered by finding Pat Flynn’s Smart Passive Income podcast, and I was very interested right off the bat. I found the idea of “your passive income, an income source with minimal effort” was super intriguing, and I was hooked right after that. So, I would, basically, listen to every one of those episodes, and eventually, I found you, Spencer. It was in Episode 66, I recall, and that led me to a lot of the stuff that you were doing. So, I kind of delved in at that point.
Overall, the process of creating a niche website seems very complex, especially to a newbie like myself. But really, when I stepped back and took a look at that overall process, it looked liked something that I definitely wanted to get involved. Probably, in the late April, I did create a couple of my early AdSense websites which weren’t very successful, but it did give me the opportunity to learn about all the moving parts like WordPress, SEO, On Page Optimization and Off Page, Keyword Research, of course, and something simple like setting up hosting. Yeah, that’s about like I have started, April, last year.
Spencer: Yeah. No, that’s awesome. That’s something that I tell people a lot about learning the process is just jumping in and build one or two sites, expect them to fail. You’ll, probably, not gonna hit a homerun on your very first site. So, jumping through the hoops, learning about hosting, domain names, setting up WordPress, all the things that you mentioned is a big hurdle to get over, but if you do it once or twice, it becomes so much easier the next time, and you can focus then on promotion and quality content, things like that. So, how many sites, total, you have right now?
Doug: Probably, about five or so; my new sites. And like I said, about three of them are some of those initial sites that didn’t really do much. Eventually, I can say one of them ended up making about $1 per day in AdSense which can pay for hosting which is a small success.
Spencer: Sure, absolutely. So, we’re gonna focus on one particular site that you built which sounds like it was only, maybe your third or fourth site that you built ever, that it is done very, very well. It’s a site that we share this success story on Niche Pursuits. I know you’ve continued to do very, very well with that site. All that, you go ahead and share the numbers. How well has the site done last month in earnings? Maybe, you can share like traffic stats or anything else. Tell us about this site.
Doug: Okay. Well, the big impressive number is that it did make over $10,000 last year and over $6,000 of that was in December, so I mean the growth was…
Spencer: It’s awesome.
Doug: Thank you. It was a total surprise. Initially, the goal was to make about $300 per month after 4 to 6 months. So, I would say, modest school and the growth was exponential up to a point. It’s been a huge success, overall. As far as traffic and that sort of thing, I can tell you early on, I started the site in about mid-July or so, and I wasn’t getting very many visitors for a while. So, I could tell you on August, it’s about 20 visitors per day, and it ramped up to about two hundred and fifty or so in October, and that’s when I actually started ranking number one for a couple of my main terms.
Doug: By December, I was getting between 700 and a thousand visitors per day, and as you could imagine it, I mean, you have an Amazon site, but the retail season sort of skews the whole year in a very good way. Overall, it had a nice trajectory in the earning, sort of matched up pretty well with the number of visitors per day. Again, topping off at 63 hundred is what I, eventually, got in December.
Spencer: Now, that’s awesome. I love to hear that. Everybody would love to have a site that earns $6,000 plus in one month. And obviously, as you said, that’s maybe skewed a little bit because it was December, holiday season, lots of people buying. But obviously, you’ve done very well all along the way. Couple of things I’ll point out. This is a site that is only about 6 months old; you created in mid July. It sounds like hitting seven hundred to a thousand visitors a day, all monetized by Amazon. So, you’re referring people to Amazon; when they buy something, you get a commission. I’m sure most of the people listening to our interview know how the Amazon associates program works. But you don’t own any of the products; you’re just referring people to Amazon to do that. I can’t say enough how awesome that is. That’s a huge site that’s doing very, very well that you’ve been able to accumulate those earnings very, very quickly in a short period of time. So, people listening, including myself, we want to know what your secret to success. Why do you think that you’ve done so well with the site?
Doug: I think being able to focus on certain tasks that are really the highest priority at any given time, that really led to the success. When you think about what’s the highest priority task, for me, I always look at what impacted either traffic or conversion rates because directly, those impact the revenue. So, I guess to be a better more detailed and more specific, you have to be able to get your site to rate number one for at least one search term and hopefully, many secondary search term in a niche that has enough exact match searches, as well as, having a nice, wide product line that has a wide range of price points. So, it’s sort of a multi-faceted thing but in the end, it’s being able to prioritize that long list of tasks that is required to create a niche site and work on those things that actually do matter.
Spencer: Yeah. No, that absolutely made sense. I love that approach. You’re taking a very methodical, well-thought out approach what task need to be done, what task gonna have the highest impact, and how I can prioritize those tasks. So, where do you start? I mean, I’m gonna assume that you start with choosing the niche or choosing the keywords, is that correct?
Doug: Sure. Yeah, and you know, it took us a little while to pick the keyword and when I say “us” I’m talking about my wife and I. So, I have to give my wife full credit for actually coming up with the keyword. We spent several weeks brainstorming and thinking about topics that we were very familiar with, all the way the things that we really didn’t know anything about. Eventually, she came up with a real nice keyword, phrase that we had a mild interest in, and when I checked out the the search volume, it was between five and six thousand exact match searches per month and with the secondary keywords, the aggregate total was, probably, another five or six thousand for the secondary keyword.
So, looking at that alone, it seemed really promising and the keyword competitiveness is obviously one of the big factors, and it checked out just a quick overview sort of the other pages that you could see on the front page of the search results, where maybe two other niche sites and two form answers which, as you know, that’s a really good sign that both is profitable and it’s something that niche sites can rank for.
Spencer: Yeah, exactly. Five thousand to six thousand searches per month, low competition on the first page, do you have a search volume that you recommend? I mean, would you say, “it needs to be 5,000” or what are your thoughts there?
Doug: I think more of it depends on the price point of the products. But I would say, if you can get over 15 hundred or so, that’s probably getting in the right ballpark. If there are many related secondary keywords, then, you may be able to bump that down just to tag. But yeah, I would say, as long as you’re over 15 hundred, you may have something to look at, particularly, if the competition is well. That would indicate, probably, you wouldn’t have to invest as much time in that particular keyword.
Spencer: Yeah, I can agree with that. I think that’s good advice. Higher search volume is always better if the competition is low, but often, you need to find something that has a little bit lower search volume. The ballpark you recommended, I think is just fine, as long as there are secondary keywords. So, I think that’s s good advice as well. Anything else you wanna share about either, keyword research, why you decided to pick it, or anything related to that?
Doug: No, I would like to jump back just to tab to some of the priorities that I did look at and keyword research was, definitely, a high priority item upfront. But I actually didn’t spend much time on a theme or layout or design. I used the stock 2012 WordPress theme and as you know, it’s bare bones. It really doesn’t have much going on, but it does relatively clean. And upfront, I knew I did not want to spend much time working with themes or trying to get everything to look just perfect, because in the long run, the way the site looked didn’t really have a big impact for either ranking number one or having a reader find the site useful. So, in the long run, I save time by not spending my efforts trying to get the theme set up just right. In addition, my conversion rate actually turned out to be pretty high. So, I think about 10 to 15 percent of the visitors on the site actually click over to Amazon, and the conversion rate on Amazon is about 6% which is pretty high. What was yours on your website?
Spencer: Mine’s closer to three or four percent and maybe, even a little bit lower in some days. So yeah, 6% is really good.
Doug: Thanks. Like I said, I’m not gonna win in any web design or words. You know, I made the header myself. It doesn’t look that nice, but when you look at the earnings and when you look at the conversion rate, it’s hard to really argue with the results.
Spencer: Yeah, you know what? I like that sort of a task prioritization approach where you’re looking at it, your priority is to rank number one in Google and to make money, and so, you’ve looked at the time wisely and said, ‘Well, I could spend all this time making it look pretty but in the end, it’s not necessarily gonna help me get to those other higher priority things.’ So, I think that’s a very interesting approach that yeah, I like that. It’s good.
Doug: Thanks. I was gonna say, so you know, tough thinking about ranking in Google, I do wanna share that. In the last week, and it’s around January 17th today, but last week around January 10th of this year, 2014, my rankings have dropped a little bit. So, the actual impact is about a 60-65% hit on my daily traffic. I was at about over 500 per day here in January, and it has dropped to 100, 200. So, it’s quite a decline and there is definitely a talk of a Google algorithm update, and it’s a legend. We don’t know for sure, but my main keyword has dropped from number one to number three, and many of my secondary keywords have, I think, fallen off to the second page or beyond. So again, I have had a traffic hit at this point.
Spencer: Okay. No, I’m glad you shared that because for people listening, maybe we can discuss a little bit about maybe what happened or what you’re gonna do. I think maybe what I wanna do is let’s go through your process of how you built the site: content, link building, things like that, and then, let’s revisit this drop in rankings in a little bit and discuss that, because obviously, that’s what’s happening and people are gonna wanna know. So, once you got your keyword, and you got your theme up and were building the site, what’s your approach with content, as far as either secondary keywords or any tips that you wanna share for; how people can put great content on their site; or anything you did?
Doug: Okay. Well, as I mentioned, I had an interest in the particular niche. So, I created all the initial content which consisted of a front page post of about 2,000 words or so and approximately 10 reviews on various products. That took me a couple of weeks to create, and I’ve links from Amazon and that sort of thing. Eventually, I started writing a little bit less and hired a couple of writers to help me out, but overall, I think I’ve created and wrote about 75% of the content on the site.
Eventually, after I got that initial set of content, I immediately started promoting since I knew that a reasonable amount of content was enough to get started with some of the link building and just to round up the content portion. Eventually, I ended up with about 25 different reviews on various products, and I went back and beefed up that front page. So, it’s about 4,000 words now which I think is extremely helpful. When you look at the exact amount of time that each one of the visitors spends on the front page is something about close to 5 minutes or so which is a pretty long time. I mean, there’s not that many websites where I spend 5 minutes on there.
Spencer: Yeah. No, definitely that is. So, yeah, it sounds like you’ve really focused on quality content and clearly, it’s something useful. I mean, that’s indicated by the amount of time that people are spending on the site. Did you mention how many total articles, approximately, are on the site?
Doug: About 25.
Spencer: Okay, About 25 articles that either you’ve written for the most part or some writers, so that’s good. How did you promote the site? Let’s dive in the link building because obviously, that’s gonna be critical to ranking any website in Google and maybe, you can share some tips there.
Doug: Okay. So, I mean I followed a similar approach to what you’ve outlined in the past, and I’ve added a couple improvements, I think, things that may have helped out in the ranking. So, blog commenting right off the bat. I mean, that’s an easy way and I think, it’s a very safe way to do some promotion. I didn’t get much traffic from the blog comments, but it is a nice way to make sure the site is indexed. So, I’ve actually got my wife to help out and we each did about five comments per day for about four weeks just for the links, and not all of them were gonna get approved and that’s why you go for such a large volume. That’s a lot of links but it is…
Spencer: Now, are these on like relevant blogs to your niche or were you looking for high authority type sites?
Doug: They were relevant blogs. We have a reason to believe quick way to find blogs to comment on, and I would aim for the exact topic, but sometimes, as long as you get close or in related topics, well, that’s not bad either, so…
Doug: Some of the other things that I did: create social profiles. So, that’s like Google+, a YouTube page, Facebook and Twitter. I really don’t have any activity on any of those platforms, but there is a link back to the homepage from those sites, and that again, probably, helps to get things indexed. And if you’re niche actually wins itself to having a presence on Twitter, for example, it’s probably very useful that it actually have an active account there.
And then, a couple of the other items that I also did were article directories and web directories. So, the article directories, I actually didn’t write very good content to put out there. I think those were pretty cheap articles that I had written and posted. They do provide links back from a variety of domains which is nice. And what directories? I mean these are mix tag, but I picked a couple of that, maybe they cost 10 or 15 dollars to register on there which is a nice barrier to entries. So, not everyone is getting those kind of links from a web directory.
And probably, the thing that I spent the most time on was creating free Web 2.0 blogs. So, WordPress, BlogSpot, Tumblr and I kind of set them up with three to five posts or so, sort of make them look lived in. I would only link from link to my site from maybe one or two of those articles and the rest would point to other non-competitive authority sites. The goal is to sort of make them look lived in but not over the spamming. I really like the web 2.0s because you. actually, can control those links and you can change up the anchor text rank should you need to.
One of the other things I did was YouTube videos. So, I would actually produce short videos that just had, basically, the text of one of my reviews, and post that, put a link back to that specific page and the description of the YouTube video. So, I don’t think I was getting any visitors from that, but it does provide a link back to your page. So, one of the other things to add is, I think it’s very important to not just link to your homepage (the root domain) but to link to the specific reviews or some other content in the deeper pages on your site.
Spencer: Yup, definitely. I agree. So, a lot of good tips there, a lot of different ways that you went about building links. Would you recommend that people listening do the same? I mean, if you’re to build the second site starting today, would you build links the exact, same way?
Doug: Yes, I would, and I am and this is what I’m doing. So…
Doug: I think there is some risk involved with this specific method, but I mean if you have a site that isn’t making money yet, then I think your risk is very low. I mean, I look at it as, really a project-risk management situation. So, I mean my risk is super low if I create some links that maybe Google doesn’t like that much, but I mean I’m not gonna lose anything other than a little bit of time.
Now, one other thing that I wanna add is this is sort of the secret part. So, tiered link building is still, I think, a powerful way to build up your authority on your website. So, rather than building multiple tiers linking to each of those within a categories of links that I mentioned before, I would actually go to Fiverr and get high-rated gigs to point to the web directory articles or to the Web 2.0s, for example.
Spencer: Got you.
Doug: And in that way, obviously, I’m sheltered. It’s the same old idea of tiered link building. But you know, I just build the first layer and then, I could outsource very cheaply at Fiverr for some of those other third, fourth tier links backup.
Spencer: No, very cool. Those are some good ideas. And I know we’ve talked previously about some other link building strategies that you have and maybe you can tell us how much you do this? But anybody that knows, that’s either listen to my podcast or in my blog, I‘ve talked a lot about Private Blog Networks, how important are Private Blog Networks to you and did you use them for the site?
Doug: Okay, so for this particular site, PBNs just played a pretty minor role. So…
Doug: I really liked the idea of PBNs and realized quickly that it’s a whole hard work. You have to manage the domains, you have to manage the content, and for me, one of the trickier parts is to get the separate C Block IP addresses. So…
Doug: It just turned out to be a lot more work than I expected. So that said, I did get about three domains with pretty poor authority. I think I’ve picked them out myself, and I didn’t know what I was doing.
Doug: I had about three links from PBN domains that I’ve created. So, I mean they didn’t play a very big role in this particular site; however, for me now, I am actually working on creating my own PBN, and I definitely see the power of controlling the links, controlling the domains, and the service that you and Hayden have with RankHero is fantastic. I know Jon Haver has a similar service, slightly different, but again, providing a tremendous amount of value for people that, maybe, they don’t have the time or they just don’t wanna set up their own PBN which I can definitely relate to that.
Spencer: Oh, for sure. I’m in the exact same boat as you. I see the value of PBNs. I’ve tried to build up my own and I have; I do have several out there. But it’s a big project to put together. It’s very time-consuming and for me, it often took sort of the back seat to a lot of other things that I was doing. So, I’ve used, obviously, RankHero. I’ve use Jon Haver’s service, as well, to help me find domains. I’ve used both of those. So, I recommend both of those as well. So, PBNs didn’t play a very big role in your current site, but it sounds like going forward, you’re gonna use them a little bit more. I think a lot of people listening really want to hear everything about link building. They want to know every little detail. Do you feel like link building is sort of the reason the site was so successful? Or what are your thoughts there on link building in general?
Doug: I think link building is probably just as important as the keyword research. And I mean, I have to imagine that all the efforts that I’ve put in which… I think I’ve probably put in more time building the links than I did: producing or managing the content. I mean, link building is tremendously important. In my opinion, that’s the main way that Google is ranking our sites.
Spencer: Yup. Yeah. Absolutely and you gave some good tips there: Web 2.0s, article directories, web directories, YouTube videos, some of the tiered link building with Fiverr gigs, blog commenting. Was there anything else there that we missed? What if somebody were to focus on just one type of link building to start, what would that be?
Doug: To start out, I would say the blog commenting. One of the reasons that I like blog commenting so much is it provides a really diverse linking domain profile. So, it’s pretty nice to see you have, not only do you have many links going into your site, but it’s from several different IP addresses, several different domains. I think that paints a nice picture when you look at the link profile in that way. In addition, it doesn’t take as much time as I mentioned before. The strategy I took was five to ten per day for about four weeks, and that’s a lot of link you can get potentially. Of course, they’re no follow, but it’s a natural way to get links. So, that’s where I would recommend people to start out.
Spencer: Well, that’s great. So now, let’s go back to what you mentioned earlier. The site did very, very well in December, but on January 10th you had some rankings drop; possible Google update. What are your plans going forward? Why do you think it happened? What’s your analysis of what happened?
Doug: Okay, yeah. For now, I’m remaining calm, and I’m gonna wait and give it a little bit of time. I know that sometimes rankings and the Google updates, right, they sort of shift around. So, for right now, I’m just gonna give it a little of bit of time before I react. However, in the meantime, I have done a pretty decent amount of analysis, so I looked at my own page SEO for, typically, keyword density. I analyze my site and I analyze all the other sites in the top 10. So, in that area on page, I’m actually right on par. Nothing looks out of line there and you know, the fact that I have 4,000 words on the front page sort of helps out with keyboard density, I think.
Doug: The second thing that I’m looking at and I believe this is where I can use an improvement is the anchor text for my back link. So, I’m actually a little bit out of line in that area where I have about maybe 13 or 14 percent of my anchor text is the exact keyword that I’m trying to rank for, and I would like to get that down under 5% or so. Of course, that will take either updating the links that I do control or adding more links to dilute that number. I’ll probably take a twofold approach on that and add links and go ahead and cit really was passive for a couple of months here. But this is a nice wake up call. I need to go out there and add more articles, add some more links, and that’s what I’m gonna be doing over the next couple of weeks because those are things that need to be done anyway, regardless of any kind of ranking impact. So I guess, part of the silver lining here is I did make it through December, and I was expecting about the first quarter of this year to be very slow and I expected the earnings to drop significantly anyway. So, do you have any tips? I mean what would you do in this case?
Spencer: Yes, so I think your analysis is probably pretty good. You’ve looked at your own page optimization. That’s quite frequently a problem that people have is over optimizing their site. And then, the other thing is of course, links and anchor text is often the problem. So, I think that you’re looking at the right things there. It’s really hard without looking at the site itself, you know to sort of analyze everything, but I would say in my opinion, you’re looking at the right things. Unfortunately, Google doesn’t tell you what the problem is, and so my guess, maybe is as good as yours. But I think you’re looking at the right things.
The other thing is just finding more high quality links. If you can actually go out and get some links from some nice authoritative sites within your niche, either through guest posting or just interacting with some actual blogs, things like that, that can help as well. But other than what you looked at, I don’t have anything else off the top of my head that I would be looking at. That is sort of the name of the game. A lot of times with niche sites is they do well and then, they might drop a few spots and not do quite as well. But if I’m not mistaken, your site is still earning and it’s still profitable, is that right?
Doug: Correct. Yes, right.
Spencer: Right. So, you’re doing the right thing to try and bring the site back. But it is still earning money; it’s still profitable. So, that is the silver lining there as well. So unfortunately, I don’t know that I have any better advice for you other than I think you’re doing what you need to be doing.
Doug: Thanks. Thank you. Quick thing to add is well, you’ve asked what I thought could be one of the reasons that happened. So, it could be possible that some of the gigs that I got from Fiverr to point to my tier 1 are no longer valuable. So, that would mean that the links from my, for example, Web 2.0s point to my money site are not passing the dues that they were before. So, that could be one symptom. I don’t think this site, overall, is penalized or that in some great risk, I think. Like you mentioned, add some more good links, go to some authority sites, and I think in maybe 60 to 90 days, I should be either back where I was before. That is the kind of timeline that I look at when trying to rank a site. I mean, I know I have the site established, but I understand it’s not gonna happen overnight.
Spencer: Yep. Now, that sounds good. Sounds like a good plan. I’m, certainly, interested seeing what happens. I know other people listening will be interested in seeing what happens. Revise while jumping to a work and they follow along. I mean, are you gonna update people, so in a month or two, if things turn around for you again working to get those updates?
Doug: Right. Those are over at nichesiteproject.com and thanks for the idea. I’m gonna name “Spencer” to share it back.
Spencer: Absolutely, I expect a royalty there.
Doug: All right.
Spencer: It’s good. It’s great name.
Doug: All right. So, yeah, I’m providing updates there. I blog about, obviously, niche sites and how I apply project management, methodologies and skills to manage niche sites, and that is where I’m tracking the updates. Hopefully, I’ll be able to provide a nice outline on what I did to bring my site back and the good graces of Google.
Spencer: Perfect. So, nichesiteproject.com, people can follow along there. In addition, do you have any other sites or any other projects that are in the works that you wadid to bring my site back and the good graces of Google.
Spencer: Perfect. So, nichesiteproject.com, people can follow along there. In addition, do you have any other sites or any other projects that are in the works that you wanna tell us about?
Doug: Sure, yeah. I actually have a couple of niche sites that are in progress. I’m always creating a couple of new ones and they’re on the burners. But my primary project right now is my book. I wrote a book in the last few months and it’s called “A Complete Guide to Creating an Amazon Associate Website Using Project Management Methodology” or for short “Niche Site Project Management,” as what I call it. So, the response has been overwhelming. It’s fantastic. The release for the alpha version was back in December which, basically, sold out immediately and currently right now, a beta release is on sale. Although, I think by the time this podcast is published, the beta version will be already closed off and the full release will be available. So, that’s going well, and I’ve been able to take all the feedback from my alpha and beta groups and in a great backend, and really improved the book. So, it’s been a really fun process and it’s been great meeting all of the smart people out there.
Some of the good things that I think are in the book are, basically the specific outline of what I did to create my site and how my project management to that process. In the book, I actually have the full task list and a Gantt chart as well that provides a nice project plan for a person to create a project on their own. A Gantt chart, it’s a bar chart that illustrates the schedule. Yeah, obviously, I’m very excited about the book and I hope I’ll be able to bring value to other people by sharing that information.
Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. Doug was kind enough to share with me an early version of the Niche Site Project Management book before even the alpha, and I was able to read through it and look it, and what I liked about it was exactly what you just mentioned, sort of the task list, the project management approach where it breaks down each task and shows you the entire flow of where you need to be focusing. And I could see that very valuable to people that know where to start, maybe get overwhelmed with all of the different moving parts of building a niche site. So, I think you’ve done well with that book, sort of laying out the entire process on how people can apply it. So, yeah, I think it’s a great outline of building niche site. So, again people can check that out if they went over at nichesiteproject.com.
Very well there, overall Doug, I wanna thank you so much for coming on and sharing with everyone in the Niche Pursuits community this success that you’ve had with your most recent niche site and kind of what you have in the works going forward.
Doug: Thanks, Spencer and I wanna share with your listeners just a bit of thank you. So, I’m gonna create a nice video tutorial showing how to quickly find blogs to comment on. So, they head over to nichesiteproject.com/Spencer, that video will be available there. So, I’ll be happy to provide that for your listeners.
Spencer: Awesome. That’s good. A surprise gift there here at the end for people that have continued listening. I think that’s super valuable, you know finding quick way to find blogs to comment on that are within your niche. So, nichesiteproject.com/Spencer; go check that video out. I’m gonna do the same. So, I appreciate that, Doug. Thanks again for everything. Anything else that you wanted to share, last minute advice, or any final tips?
Doug: Thank you, Spencer. I really appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast and for everybody out there, you can take action and go start your first site right away.
Spencer: Awesome. Thank you so much, Doug.
Doug: Thank you.
Spencer: All right. Bye bye.